This is a written Transcription for the Leadership Hustle episode about How to Navigate Productivity and Collaboration, from Season 1 Episode 33.

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Transcript:

Andrea Fredrickson: With today's ever increasing expectations and pressure to get things done, there's a tension between being productive and collaborating. In this episode of The Leadership Hustle, we'll give you tips on how to decide when collaboration outranks production. Hello and welcome to the Leadership Hustle for executives whose companies are growing fast and need leaders who are ready. Welcome back to the Leadership Hustle. I'm Andrea Fredrickson and I am joined again by Michelle Hill. Hello. Hello. And today our topic is about this tension between, um being productive and creating collaboration. You know, we've got organizations just this week talking to a gentleman and they described their organization as GSD. I just want to get shit done. They put their head down. They, um, they go into their offices. There's not a lot of meetings and they just move things along. And I said, so, um, tell me about your leadership team. Like, uh huh, uh huh. And I said, tell me, you know, how often do they collaborate? I'm like, we have. He said, we have meetings once a month. That is not collaboration. That's meeting. And he's like, you know, we just we just don't believe in having these meetings because they're a waste of time. I'm like, hmm, belief system. This is a belief system. And so there is a lot of, you know, tension between this productivity versus collaboration. But I think there's more tensions than that. Um, you know, I'm looking at this. I'm like, is this the individual versus the team? Like, oh, I can just get more stuff done by myself, and I don't need to bring the team together.

 

Andrea Fredrickson: Right. Or I just want my team together and I don't want anybody else's team involved. Right. There's a tension in time and efficiency with with that. Um, there is this time of this this tension of efficiency versus inclusion. Okay. So if I just if we just have one person or just a couple of people have a conversation, we're not including the other members of the team or we're not including other members of other departments that may need to be a part of making decisions. Um, and I think that there's also a tension of whether or not it's the organizational goals versus the individual's objectives, and how do we manage those. So they're all kind of interwoven together. And so. You know. Facing, facing a culture that is, you know, let's just put our head down, get stuff done. I asked this, this gentleman, so how often do you have to do rework or do we have to get, you know, somebody's input? Because once you got going down the path, we found out that things weren't. He's like all the time. All the time. I'm like, I'm looking at him like. Yeah, but it's such a waste of time. I hate meetings, I'm like, okay, let's talk about this. So, um, I thought this was a great topic about, you know, this tension are you running into maybe not the extreme.

 

Michelle Hill: I'm running into the opposite.

 

Andrea Fredrickson: Okay. Talk to about that. Well, when.

 

Michelle Hill: I'm running into is just there's so many meetings and then there's so many meetings, but people don't feel they're productive and they don't feel like they're getting things done, but they're literally back to back to back meetings. And unfortunately, what you're also finding is they don't have time to do their they well, a couple things. They don't have time to prepare for meetings. So they're not productive, right? They don't have time to follow up after the meetings because when they do have their pockets of time, they're trying to get other stuff done kind of scenario. So, you know, when you go down that path, that's where are we collaborating too much versus, you know, are we ensuring that people have individual time because there should be a good balance there? Um, but I also think, uh, whoever is driving the meetings, uh, it's identifying what's the, what type of meeting are we meeting for? Right. Um, and what's the agenda? What are we covering? Uh, and I'm not a structured. I'm like, very unstructured. So this this kind of pushes me to right where I need to get a little more structured. But it's why, you know why we're having this meeting. What are we trying to accomplish? Uh, but then also individuals who are invited to this meeting, because kind of going back to your problem where they're not meeting with other divisions, directors, you know, other departments and so forth, there's more work as they move forward.

 

Michelle Hill: Right? Sure. Um, the problem comes into play where people from those other areas don't always know why they're a part of this meeting either. Right? So ensuring that each person understands why they're there, the value they bring and the expectations. Right. So we have productive meetings. So it's setting some ground rules or whoever's creating the meeting, you know, being more realistic of who we pulling in. What's those expectations. Getting some structure there but also setting some rules too I think depending on the organization, um, you know, what are what's okay and what's not okay to schedule over other people's time or because that's another issue and that's, you know, people are trying to block off time. So I mean, yeah, the meeting, the the collaboration, IT people can have a mindset where they are all for it, but when they're in it all day long, they're no longer for it too. Right, right. Um, but so I think we can flip a coin here and go either direction.

 

Andrea Fredrickson: Yeah. And there's a reason to be more isolated, and there are reasons to be collaborative. And so when you think about, you know, what, what are some of the reasons that, that you believe people need to collaborate. Like why should you bring more than just. Um, not even. Why should you bring more than just one person into the conversation? Or why should you have people from different departments coming together? What's the why do that? Because it does. It takes its time and money. Oh, it.

 

Michelle Hill: Is definitely time and money. I think that when we bring people together, are we problem solving? Are we being innovative? Are we, you know, um, you know, it's it's things that that are going to ripple out into the, or into the organization. And that's, I mean, problem solving innovation, um, you know, coming together to plan what we're going to be all maybe working on. So it's project planning as well, right? Sure. Um, if we're if there is a project, something that we've recently approved, um, we all need to get on the same page and have some identified some deadlines and who's doing what and so forth. But sometimes, you know, it's so I guess we just go back to that. It's those those reasons, I would say for collaborating right now. I do think timing is a thing to to consider too. Right? So when we think about being innovative or problem solving, um, doing it in times more towards the first half of the day versus the last half of the day.

 

Andrea Fredrickson: People are productive or have energy.

 

Michelle Hill: Energy, right? Yeah. Because when they go in by the afternoon, we all are thinking a little differently as we've been drained throughout the day. Right? So being very intentional, what type of meetings we're having and when to have it, if it's a simple status update, you can shoot me an email. Um, unless we need to give each other feedback on something. Right. How are we going to run that differently?

 

Andrea Fredrickson: Status status meetings. I would find many people say those are more of a waste of time. If you want to look at status, go read the report. Yes, right. If there's there needs to be notes we don't need to have, people can go read those in on their time, but we don't have to schedule a 30 minute or 45 minute or an hour meeting because that's what outlook defaults to. That says this is what we're going to do. Um, so I, you know, from those from the meetings, whether it is, you know, it's a report out meeting, don't need a report out meeting. Those are just answering questions I can ask somebody, pick up the phone, send a text, I can email. I have a question. Here's what's going on. Right.

 

Michelle Hill: And maybe we have some sort of collaborative platform that by a certain time and date, everyone has their updates and people can go out there. And then if I need to clarify, I know to reach out to you. I mean, I think there's with technology, there's other ways to do right information that's just pushing out right.

 

Andrea Fredrickson: And not waiting until the meeting to look at the report or look at the graphs or look at the whatever it is that was set out there. It's like, otherwise you're wasting time in the meeting. Yeah. And you brought up, you know, problem solving or or or brainstorming or innovating something where you need people's input. But remember, work expands to fit the amount of time that you allow for it. So if you allow three hours for it, it will probably take you three hours. If it takes, you know, an hour, we can be a little bit more efficient in the process, but it also probably means we probably haven't been really good about asking questions. And there's a really good article in the Harvard Business Review, this this time about the about are we asking the right questions? Are they good? And so, um, I think that that's one aspect of it. And then the decision process, like if we're if we as a team have to make a decision, there has to be something done. We have to let people know that that's what we're doing. Correct.

 

Michelle Hill: But I think this is the problem.

 

Andrea Fredrickson: But I think there's one more to this. And that is when we've got a team that's new or we have a team that's not functioning well. Being collaborative is a team building process or a team building function.

 

Michelle Hill: Yeah, that would be just another it would be team building. Right?

 

Andrea Fredrickson: Yeah. And so, um, with this, with this group that I was talking about, where it's like, I hate meetings. We're, you know, we're all about getting things done, and we don't spend a lot of time in meetings. It's like, that's fine not to spend a lot of time in meetings. But are you hearing what people have to say? And are you, um, debating the the the ideas that people are bringing forward, like, you know, in the in a previous episode we talked about, we talk about we need to debate things and we need to challenge ideas, and we need to look at things from multiple ideas, especially from team one. Team one is that senior group of leaders that is setting direction and setting culture for the organization. And if they're not on the same page, we have a problem. And so we've got to have collaboration. We can't just dictate that, oh, we're going to be a. Uh, this kind of an organization or that kind of organization without vetting. What does that mean for people, and how are we living that? And how are we demonstrating that in our own, in our own ways? Yeah. And so those are intentional that that doesn't always only happen at the senior level. But as you bring on new people, as people leave and roles are changing and there's different stressors that are being brought on, people need to be a part of of having those words and those perspectives being, um, being heard to make sure that we're, um, literally collaborating so that we're, we're making sure that we're getting the right information out in front of other folks. Yes.

 

Michelle Hill: Well, and I guess one meeting that's not collaboration, it's pushing information out. I do believe that, um, when you know, organization, you know, it's initiatives. It's it's where we're going. It's that future focus to create certainty, where people understand where we're going. Um, so, yeah, things are predictable and people are in the know, so you can call it an all company meeting. I believe those are valuable. But again, can it be done in 30 minutes? You know, looking at timing, you know, we don't need a default to what outlook provides. Um, but those are important that everyone hears the same message. Well, that everyone has an opportunity to be to to listen to the same message. Now, what they take away from it, it's going to be a little different. Which then I think then that goes back to one on ones. Right? Um, to confirm what was said.

 

Andrea Fredrickson: Well, even the idea that, say, a senior leadership team is rolling out, you know, either new values of the organization or they're, um, going through their cascading meetings for organizational goals and quarterly updates and monthly, um, uh, scorekeeping kinds of things that they do. A lot of people say, yeah, we're going to do that, but no discussion about who's doing what. What is specifically the message, what is the tone that we're trying to do, that there's a collaboration that comes from that, because otherwise you get to the get to like, you know, the meeting schedule, but who's who's doing the slides or who's who's putting this together and making sure that it's, that's organized in a certain way or who's putting out the emails. So this is happening. It's like, who's doing what is part of the collaboration. It's not just assigning, it's making sure that people understand that we're all on the same page. Yeah. Um, you know, there is there is a lot to be said about. Let me just put my head down, let me shut my doors or work in my own space and let me just make some decisions. If I have a question, I'll reach out and ask you. There's a lot to be said, and the larger the organization I'm noticing, the easier it is for that to happen.

 

Michelle Hill: Oh, much.

 

Andrea Fredrickson: Easier. Um, because people are being pulled in so many different directions and so with, with the fact that. People are defaulting to let me just do it by myself because I have too many other meetings now. They're having to spend more time doing the, uh, individual conversations as opposed to one collective conversation. And so not everybody is being a part of all of the information. So they're not learning the same information, correct?

 

Michelle Hill: Correct. Because as if we're doing one offs, I call them one offs. If you and I had a one off, then I had a one off with someone else. I may have the main message I want to share with you, but you may ask a question. And now I've given you more information from that, and then maybe the discussion a little further, where then, if I have another one off with someone else, they might just take it for what it is, because that's their personality and they didn't move on. Well, now they don't have the same information you have. You never.

 

Andrea Fredrickson: Told me.

 

Michelle Hill: Yes.

 

Andrea Fredrickson: Right? Yes.

 

Michelle Hill: And so information there, it definitely creates where we're not all learning the receiving the same information at the same time. So yeah the one offs can be, I think very dangerous. And it can definitely create silos. So it's but it's, it is finding it I think it's a fine balance because there are things that people need to focus because that's another problem is we're so distracted. And what's the ripple effect of not having that head down focus time while at the same time, if we are problem solving and being innovative in a silo, we're not really being innovative and we're not really problem solving because the ripple effect of not collaborating with others is going to it's going to have a negative impact. And now we've probably created other issues right in that whole situation.

 

Andrea Fredrickson: So when. There are times for. Put my head down. Let me do my own job. I'll ask the question if I need to. But this but hub and spoke is not. Uh, this group of collaboration where we've got a team of people that are helping solve a problem or creating different solutions, or at least being in the know to ask the question that wasn't asked by somebody else. Those things are so important. If you can't collaborate, if there isn't, time is if there if you're not making time to have, um. Routine events where people are getting together and they know what the purpose of the meeting is the the brainstorming, the innovations, the the, the decision making process, then it is more imperative that you keep everybody in the loop. And that takes more effort because you think you've done something, because you had these one off conversations and now you've got to maybe you have to put something in an email. Now everybody, now you're collaboration is via email and you've just filled everybody else's inbox with just one more email.

 

Michelle Hill: Yeah, that's a negative too, because then then people start responding to that email. And now so now we're all like, that's an email. Yeah, it's a group chat with us with us email. And it can expand and absorb more people's time as it maybe expands through a couple days versus just that minute.

 

Andrea Fredrickson: So like I said at the beginning, once you've determined that there's a certain kind of meeting, there has to be clarity on what's the purpose, who's supposed to be here, who's not supposed to, who doesn't need to be here? Very important. Who's not who needs to be included? That's not in this conversation. What is the protocol related to note taking? Is there any protocol to note taking so that people can catch up if they weren't able to be, because they were scheduled to be in two different events at one time? Yes. Um, and also learning that you can delegate people to go to meetings and learn to let go of the fear of missing out on things. So if you're that person, you've got a severe case of FOMO. That's a that's a situation where you can learn and, and become less of that and delegate to other people so that they can be a part of that and they can grow. But also recognize when you've got a group of people that you think need to come together, ask the question, does this need to be a meeting? How frequently does this meeting even need to happen? Are we looking at this from a weekly, bi weekly, monthly kind of thing? Or can we schedule this less often? Like what's the frequency? Frequency? And don't just set it and forget it, right.

 

Michelle Hill: Well, it's also ensuring or giving people permission to prepare for the meeting, because when we don't prepare, then we're not ready for the whatever the discussion is. So making sure we're educating people on what to prepare for, um, and then confirming what we're doing as a result of that meeting. So we all are on the same page too.

 

Andrea Fredrickson: So I think this is an ongoing debate that leaders will have, because there's so many different projects and so many initiatives that, yes, some will require individual put your head down, go to work, and then there'll be others where collaboration. It may take time, but the outcome is so much more beneficial because of the number of people there or the voices that are heard, or they're getting to know and trust. Trust one.

 

Michelle Hill: Another. Yeah, there's definitely building relationships in meetings. Yeah. If we're especially if we're intentional.

 

Andrea Fredrickson: But this was another fun episode. Um, just talking about this tension that hopefully we've given people a couple of little tips to to pay attention to when you're looking for resources as it relates to developing leaders, check out RevelaGroup.com. The link is in the show notes, and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss another episode.