This is a written Transcription for the Leadership Hustle episode about Leveraging Disagreements for Team Success, from Season 1 Episode 32.

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Transcript:

Andrea Frederickson: Many people hate conflict, and yet have you thought about using it as a leadership tool? In this episode of The Leadership Hustle, we'll talk about how to use conflict to build a better team. Hello and welcome to the Leadership Hustle for executives whose companies are growing fast and need leaders who are ready. Welcome back to the Leadership Hustle. I'm Andrea Fredrickson, and I am joined once again by Michelle Hill. And today's topic is using conflict as a leadership tool. Michelle, you know, you and I we we talk to a lot of leaders every week, right? That's that's that's kind of our thing. And during the time, how often do you hear people say, I just want my employees to be happy.

 

Michelle Hill: You hear? Well, yes. I want my employees to be happy or I want my employees to get along, or I want my employees to figure it out. I want them to. I've got a couple people that are like, I want them to hold each other accountable. So. But we don't want.

 

Andrea Frederickson: Them to be unhappy. I mean, there's a whole lot of of folks that I'm hearing. It's that I don't want them to be unhappy because if they're unhappy, then at what point is that the last proverbial straw? And now I've, you know, I've lost them and now they don't like me or they don't like the team, or there's there's all this rumbling that runs around. And I really am challenging folks lately in that, yes, we do want people to be happy. But even when people say I want them to be happy, like, yeah, but I'm like, what's the yeah, but and they're saying, yeah, but I can't always make them happy. Right. And so. You know, as we talk about this idea of conflict and how can we use that as a leadership tool, I think we have to balance the balance. This concept of people are not always going to be happy, and happy is a higher state of an emotion, but it's also that they're not so mad that they're so pissed off that they're just like, I'm over it. So. So I think that by having this conversation about how can we use conflict as a leadership tool, we first have to take a look at. Sometimes people are going to be frustrated, right. And that's okay to be frustrated because it gets the adrenaline going. It gets the blood going, it gets our endorphins going. And other, you know, great hormones. And so it's okay to get kind of tied up or kind of wound up around things as it relates to conflict. Would you agree with that?

 

Michelle Hill: Oh, I would definitely agree with that. Um, you know, I also think of, you know, as you're talking about people being happy and then we kind of think about the word conflict. If people have differing opinions, which can lead to conflict, but you have an individual who won't speak up. And they always the whoever they had the disagreeing and conflict with. Right. They disagree with them to agree with them because that just life is easier, right? Um, I think they're going to become unhappy at some point because they never get a voice. They never feel heard. And I also believe your buy in from them. It's going to be more of, you know, well, it was Andrew's idea, so it didn't work. Sucks to be her, right? Um, versus if they get to speak, you know, when they speak up, there's more of the, um, now they've shared their opinions or ideas, and I think they feel better there as well.

 

Andrea Frederickson: Right. So so going passive isn't doesn't help. And there's a whole group of folks out there that, um, either are passive where they say nothing, they don't use their voice. It's available to use, but they don't use it. Right. Or they go passive aggressive where they don't speak up in the moment where it needs to be heard. Yeah. And they do the gossip and they do the meaning behind the meetings and things like that. So so let's dive deep into, let's dive a little bit deeper into this. You know, there are degrees of conflict anywhere from. I just don't agree with you. Right? We have communication style difference to full blown yelling screaming matches that are you know, there's conflict in that. And every company has its own culture. And even within the company there are team cultures. Yeah. That you know, you know, no, we don't yell at each other in this kind of conflict or it's okay to yell, we're just not going to cuss and swear or whatever those rules are. But I think that we have to recognize everybody's degree or comfort of conflict is different.

 

Michelle Hill: Different. Very different. Yes, yes. What will I mean, we even I mean, we think about if you go to personality styles with a just simply using the disc an S style, someone that hangs in on that side of the circle, they may not be engaged in conflict, but if there's a meeting and a group of people that are coming together and two are disagreeing where it even elevates a little bit, that person who maybe, you know, relates well with the S style, um, they're uncomfortable, right? And they're not even having the conversation. But the two people that are it makes it makes that one person very.

 

Andrea Frederickson: Uncomfortable there in the presence of uncomfortable.

 

Michelle Hill: Correct? Correct. And they don't want to be there. They just want everyone to get along. They just want let's just let's move forward. Let's let's stop this. Right. And um, and it stresses them too. So yes, when you say, you know, there's different degrees of conflict, not only is a different degrees of conflict within between people, but also people around us that ripple effect, that impact.

 

Andrea Frederickson: Right, right. Okay. So there are, you know, two different kinds of conflict. There's healthy conflict and unhealthy conflict. Yes. Um, your words talk about what we at Ravella talk about related to healthy conflict. What are some of those behaviors or those attributes of healthy conflict that we promote?

 

Michelle Hill: Well, I like to call it productive conflict, okay. Because I believe that if if we all agree and no one ever disagrees with someone, it's like groupthink. I don't believe we're innovative. I don't believe that we're thinking in different ways of problem solving. I think everyone just going along with whomever has the loudest voice or the title in the room kind of scenario. Right? So I like I like to refer to as productive conflict. And I think it's extremely healthy for teams to be able to feel safe and speak up and disagree. Now, some of the things that we teach or we really coach to in our programs, and even on one on ones, is when you are having that productive conflict. It's believing that people have good intentions, right? They're coming from a good place. Um, but I need to get curious because I don't there's something I'm missing. I'm not.

 

Andrea Frederickson: Understanding. I'm trying to. Gotcha. Correct.

 

Michelle Hill: They they see something differently, and I see it, you know, it's more along the lines of, okay, this is how they think it's going to be best to solve it. I don't understand why we can't do it this way. Right. So I have to get curious to be like I see it differently. And then I need to ask open ended questions to learn to understand. And when and when we ask those open ended questions, I have to listen to understand, not listen to defend my idea, not listen to protect myself. Um, you know, not listen to, um, solve the problem on my own. I have to truly listen. So I think having some framework around how we disagree and how we go into those is also important. And I think there's also a time where people need to recognize, okay, emotions are getting a little elevated. And as those emotions rise, we're not going to be thinking as well. Right. And so we might need to say let's side table this. Maybe let's just everyone go for a five minute walk.

 

Andrea Frederickson: I need a I need a time out.

 

Michelle Hill: Let's go get a drink on say coffee or whatever. Right. Let's everyone let's break for a quick and just let's come back and revisit. But I think there's also has to be that person. But I think healthy conflict allows us to just really see things differently and see other perspectives, and really can be innovative and be creative with how we can go about doing things right.

 

Andrea Frederickson: Right. On the flip side, there's the unproductive or unhealthy conflict and, you know, some of the things that we've seen or even been a part of, maybe even done, maybe once in a while, right where we've made it personal or, you know, we blame this person and like, or you're saying you always do something in a certain way or you never do this. And yes, there's the extremes or, you know, we we, we separate, we don't separate the issue that we're having conversation about from the person that we're having this conversation almost attacking. Right.

 

Michelle Hill: Yeah. And it feels it feels personal for the person receiving that information. And it's not really constructive either because it it is more of an attack versus focusing on what the real issue is.

 

Andrea Frederickson: Right. And we've seen those scenarios where those attacks and those conversations, um, they lead to, you know, such they it changes the morale of the organization. It changes the, the, the trust factor within the organization.

 

Michelle Hill: Sasha, trust us.

 

Andrea Frederickson: Yet when we use conflict in a in our organizations or on our teams, we can get to some really great solutions. We can get to a better perspectives on how to go about solving a problem, or looking at a situation and getting a better vetting of that of that scenario. Yet without without the conflict, without the disagreeing, without the questioning of things. It's just a go along to get along. And I don't think any team member or any leader really completely wants that. They want some harmony right now, whether that means people are happy or not, they want some harmony. Yes, but how how do we use conflict as a leadership tool has to be very strategic, right? Are there things that you can think of that you know, in order to get a team to work well together? Having conflict as a tool. Can you think of any that comes to mind right off the top of your head that we should promote to those leaders who are listening today?

 

Michelle Hill: Well, I think it's got to be something that we we talk about and coach our people. I think it's something we have to build trust because if, if, if we don't trust each other, probably my belief system isn't going to believe you have good intentions, right? My my belief system might be you're out to get me, or you're trying to throw me under the bus or whatever it may be. So I think there's it's it's stages of building trust and getting to know each other. Um, I think there's also stages of educating and helping them see that how conflict can be productive in ways, you know, as long as we're doing it in ways that we're coming from a good place, our intentions are good, right? Um, and then having some ground rules in regards to what's okay, what's not okay. So we need to stay in our lane kind of ish when we go into, um, having that conflict right, right. Um, what are what are some things that, that, that you're, you're seeing or.

 

Andrea Frederickson: Well, I was thinking working with many of the same things that we don't teach people how to disagree with each other. We, you know, we there are classes out there. It's like, this is conflict management. Like, no, that's just what conflict is, right? It doesn't say. So how do you set up a team so that they can have disagreements and make sure that they're productive? So there's a couple things that that we do with with teams to help them in that conflict. In some cases it is um, we are educating the team members that when we get together, we're going to ask questions like, so what if the opposite were true? Or what if only part of that answer is actually, um, true? What part of it isn't true? Or what if what if we were looking at this from another perspective or someone else's perspective? Asking those questions as the leader evokes people thinking from a different perspective, rather than I have to prove my side, I'm being asked to prove something different. Now I'm getting used to that. And once people get used to doing that, then we can use those those events and those those situations and say, and when you realized it was okay to look at this from a different perspective, and when you realize it was okay, that we were looking for opinions that were different than what we brought to the table. How did it feel? It felt fine because they were given permission to do it. And so we can dovetail that in I we want the team to do that without the leader having to do it all the time.

 

Michelle Hill: Correct? Correct. It needs just to be more natural. As we're solving problems or situations occur. You know, a person might bring up a solution or idea where the that another person in the room can say, okay. I can. I understand if or if I understand this is the problem. So kind of paraphrasing back their understanding because I think sometimes just the misunderstanding of what the problem is right up front gets in the way too. Right? So just kind of just simply clarifying, okay. From I want to make sure I'm identifying this is the problem we're looking at. And this is what you're thinking that might this, this might be the a solution. Right. Um, some ideas or, you know, ways that this might impact our area or the, you know, X department. Um, some things that I want us to consider. Is this. Right. So now you're bringing it maybe using I statements and kind of making it more as options where we can now talk about how that might look a little different or the ripple impact into our area might look like this. So how could we do it a little? What what could we adjust, um, or what ideas can we adjust that is going to reduce that. Right, right. And where but it feels safe where it's and that's a little bit of um, one of the things that I coach with some, with some groups is that peer to peer accountability as well. Right. And with that peer to peer accountability, it is about holding each other accountable to what we say we're going to do and how we're going to go about doing it. And so that also gets difficult. But it still it falls back on the individuals, not the manager having to drive it. Right.

 

Andrea Frederickson: But the driver. But the leader has to be the person up front saying this is the kind of team we want. Yes. And we've got to set the intention for that and creating that safe environment for there's no retaliation. This is brainstorming. This is vetting something to its fullest. You know, asking the question, what question haven't we asked? What perspective haven't we considered? Um, what do we need to look at that is different than maybe what we bring into the to the scenario? This one exercise we we we do where people have to argue against something that they believe in, you know, and they have to they don't know when they're going to have to do that. And which means they have to listen to the other person as they're explaining what their opinion is, and they have to argue the opposite of it. And typically that's opposite of what they believe and how difficult people find that where they're holding on to their beliefs so tightly that they're not considering the possibility of some other answer being as correct or more correct. Yes than than what they're thinking right now.

 

Michelle Hill: Well, and I do think too, like as you're building that culture, that environment, um, as you interview, then you have to start interviewing for how people feel about it as well. Right? And I think that's part of educating a person that you're interviewing is this is how we work as a team, you know? And how do they feel about that? So it's not this big shocker when they get in there as well. Right? Because as you are developing it and people start getting comfortable doing it now we bring in this new person. Well, we've already done the educational piece. Now we're going to have to help that individual. But we also don't want to catch them off guard. Right. Because they need to be aware that, hey, we're going to we're going to disagree and we're going to figure out how to be better debated.

 

Andrea Frederickson: Okay. Yeah. You know, and I was just with the group last week where, um, the question that I was asking was, um, a bit controversial. And there were three sides to this particular situation. And, you know, I had coached the CEO of the organization. Don't respond. You wanted the team because what we were trying to do is, is develop team. And after each person had kind of vetted what they thought, then they looked at the, um, CEO, I'm like, nope, CEO doesn't get to answer this group. The remaining seven of you have to debate the scenario and listen to what other people are saying, and come up with something that you agree on. This isn't a voting thing. This is a consensus topic. Yes. And it was so really, it was so very interesting when they looked and was like. You can look at me, but I have no answers. And you can look at the CEO who's sitting next to me, and that person's not going to contribute. It's really we've got to get so that the team can learn to debate against themselves and not go out and say, you know what, I hate this person and and hold it against them because that's not what was true. And so, um, I afterwards then debriefed with individuals and talked to them. I was like, you know, that was harder than I thought, but I don't have resentment against the person who disagreed with me. I said, that's really that's really productive, that's really healthy. And what we were trying to do. But we had to do some things intentionally to practice doing that because they had already created a habit of, well, I'll voice my opinion and then the CEO will make the decision. I'm like, nope. Leaders team one we get to make a decision. It's not a decision. It is the decision.

 

Michelle Hill: Well, and I think that goes back to as well, though it's important to coach, no matter who the individual is within the organization, if they're managing a team, if we really want to promote an environment where people solve their own problems and or together, they solve problems as a team. Uh, the that leader in that room really cannot or should not share their belief about how they want to solve it, because then just right now becomes groupthink and there's no innovation. Right. And and you also it's not just them talking it's body language because as someone's talking and if and if they agree with that person might be.

 

Andrea Frederickson: Shaking their head, maybe.

 

Michelle Hill: Shaking their head. Yeah. And people are watching. People are watching. Yes. And so coaching them to get comfortable with how they present the situation or bring it up without leading people to understand or to think they believe what that person would want. Right. And then just the giving them, challenging them, not giving, but challenging them to have patience and not say anything because that's.

 

Andrea Frederickson: Sometimes very, very difficult for that.

 

Michelle Hill: Group, very.

 

Andrea Frederickson: Difficult. So let's put this let's, you know, tie this up a little bit. This is this is really a basic conversation in how can we use conflict as a leadership tool. And. You know, I think that it's sometimes too easy for us to want to create too much harmony in our teams. And so we jump in and we save people. I'm known to do that. And I have to work really hard just to let the conversation occur, because people aren't holding it against one another. They're simply saying, I have other opinions, but now let me hear what the other opinion is, and we can say we can agree with that. Use practicing how to ask questions of the team so they start thinking of the opposite opinions that they might have, because there may be too many people thinking the same way. That's completely possible. Right? And so how do we think differently? So having those opposing thoughts and putting those out on the table, but also allowing the team to and encouraging them to, you know, participate in things that they disagree with. And just as a leader, step back and say, you guys are doing great. You know, keep up this conversation. I like hearing how the different opinions of the room are, are incorporated into this conversation, but also for each of you thinking of different perspectives of your own, not just listening to someone else's perspective. These are some basic things, but they really do get to the point where we can get better solutions. We can get a more vetted, um, situation out in front of other people. Yes. Hey. Thanks, Michelle. That was a this is a great conversation about conflict. When you're looking for resources related to the development of leaders, don't forget to check us out at Ravello Group.com. The link is in the show notes. Many people hate conflict. Yet have you thought about using conflict as a leadership tool in the next episode of The Leadership Hustle? We'll talk about how to use conflict to build a better team.