This is a written Transcription for the Leadership Hustle episode about The Power of Peer to Peer Accountability, from Season 1 Episode 8.

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Andrea Frederickson: As the leader, do you feel as though you're the only person that holds people accountable on your team? On this episode of The Leadership Hustle, we'll address the concept of peer to peer accountability. Hello and welcome to the Leadership Hustle. For executives whose companies are growing fast and need leaders who are ready. Welcome to the latest episode of The Leadership Hustle, where we work with executives whose companies are growing fast and need leaders who are ready. I'm your host, Andrea Fredrickson, and I am here with Michelle Hill. Hello. How are you doing this morning, Michelle?

 

Michelle Hill: I'm here.

 

Andrea Frederickson: You're here. All right. Well, let's let's go. We've got a we've got a really good topic today. One of our previous episodes was on accountability and really just the establishing of, you know, how what are the things that are important to creating accountability, which we discussed was, you know, being clear, setting the clarity of the message deadlines, target dates, expectations, why it's important that you get what you get or need, what you need and the impact that it has when you don't get it or you do get it. But also following up and, you know, providing some feedback or, you know, just follow up. And if it isn't happening, what's that clarifying conversation or following up and appreciating and thanking people? But I think that that's super important. And those are the things we talked about in the first episode, and we had some really good response to that episode. So we thought we would go into the another version of that topic, which was which is a peer to peer accountability. And so when we are as leaders, we most of us have this conversation with coworkers or we have them in our in our leadership sessions where, yeah, we really want to create this culture of accountability or we want to create this place where people are holding each other accountable. And what we tend to believe, correct me if I'm wrong, but we tend to believe that, you know, it's the manager's responsibility to to hold people accountable. And that creates this illusion or perception that there's a punishing kind of environment.

 

Michelle Hill: Yeah, it's like policing to the manager. Now, is the police or nothing against police? By no means but. Right. But it's now if if you're not doing something or falling behind on something, they're going to have to have that conversation with you. And the thing that I think people often really mistaken accountability is I can't personally hold you accountable. Right. Right. I hold myself accountable. So in order to hold myself accountable for that clarity and expectations, and it's that, you know, that's all important because it's the environment we're creating. So I can hold myself, I can have that, understand what it is I need to hold myself accountable for. But then when you take it to that peer to peer, again, it's understanding what their roles are, responsibilities, what mine are, and it's creating that responsibility where one, I don't want to let you down. I don't want to let others down on the team. So there's that intrinsic drive, right? That it's more about, I want to do my best because I recognize how it impacts the team.

 

Andrea Frederickson: Well, I just had this conversation with a group this week. We were talking about accountability. And, you know, you'll hear people talk about employees believing that they're accountable to the manager. And what people are accountable to is to themselves, but also to their team and to the company. Most people don't want to let their coworkers down. They don't want to let the team down. They don't want to let anybody down. And so when people aren't meeting an expectation, sometimes they aren't even aware that they're not meeting the expectation.

 

Michelle Hill: Yeah, that's where the clarity comes in.

 

Andrea Frederickson: There's where the clarity comes in. And so as you are coaching executives, team leaders, managers of different response and different responsibilities, you know, what are some of the kinds of things that you suggest that are needed in setting up that environment for peer to peer accountability?

 

Michelle Hill: Well, I think one is part of it's hiring for it. It's looking for people and having the conversations to really uncover how they feel about their peers, how they feel about their coworkers. But I think the environment that we're creating really has to be in that foundational piece of knowing each other, that trust and those relationships so that social capital that they talk about, right. It's important for lots of reasons. And it's that's just one more. So then that way, you know, when we do have to have maybe that follow up conversation or that check in conversation from peer to peer, it is it's more it's coming from a caring place. I also think that creating an environment where we're developing everyone's emotional intelligence and also providing them guidance and coaching on giving and more importantly, even receiving feedback because that is. About. It's about giving each other feedback and receiving it and how do we go about doing that and knowing that they're coming, that belief in the good intentions. So there's there is a lot of that one as that manager creating that environment, but also coaching that goes along with it because everyone comes with our our own baggage. And some people may have difficulty receiving feedback or some people are really nervous about giving feedback or having that difficult conversation. And it's that's something that I believe that in time you can help someone get more comfortable. You may have, you know, out of eight members that you are leading, you may have one that's really great at it and one that's terrified and then everything else in between. So that coaching is going to have to vary from person to person, but it's also shared values. It's understanding why we all come together, what's our purpose, where are we going? How are we all going to get there together, right? The shared values. So then that way we all are aligned and then creating the expectation. Whenever it is we're working on something. It's like, let's just ensure we're all on the same page and what are we doing? And I think.

 

Andrea Frederickson: That sometimes we throw this word accountability around like everybody understands what we're talking about. And so, you know, when you mentioned, you know, in the interview, as we're talking about in our routine conversations and what our meetings are, that that we're setting up this when you don't get the what you expected. Now what we're doing is we're simply clarifying what you thought you were getting or what you were expecting versus what you got. And if we say, well, you need to go have that, you know, you need to hold that person accountable or you need to to do that, people are kind of freaking out just like, oh my gosh, I remember one of one of the people that that we work with, um, she, she came to me one time because we set this expectation up early in our conversations. We have a value where we believe people have good intentions and it's about believing in people. And we and she came to me and she said, okay, coworker, I know she's got the best of intentions. I know she's trying to do this well, but what is happening is it's causing me all kinds of grief. And so her question to me wasn't, Hey Andrea, go fix it, which is what most people do. Employee A brings a problem to me as the manager, right? And I say, okay, I'll take care of it. And then you go address a problem that you've never witnessed. Now you've got two different sides of the story. It's like, Well, that's not where we need to go yet.

 

Michelle Hill: Correct. And how does that impact trust? Because as you managing me and someone coming and saying something in my perspective, I'd be like, what the hell? Why did they just come to me? Why do they have to go to my manager to complain about me or share something about me that should have directly come? So now we've got, as we talked about, trust being that such a foundational piece, it's eroding because now people are feeling like you're tattle telling and and all of that negative drama. Right.

 

Andrea Frederickson: And so and that doesn't happen only from, um. Um, entry level positions or first line manager leaders. I have senior VP's going to CEOs and saying, Hey, we can't agree on this or we this is not something we're going to do. And then they throw the problem up to the CEO and then the CEO solves the problem. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not how this works. We have to make sure that we're establishing the language that says, How are you going to have that conversation if you don't know how to have that conversation? Why is that? You know, what can we do to have that conversation? So you don't feel like, you know, you're trying to put a pressure over that person. But we're really trying to get clarity about what is it we're trying to accomplish, What do each of us need? So, you know, going back.

 

Michelle Hill: Go ahead. Well, I was just going to say, as we talk about that peer to peer accountability, before you dive too deep, it's like, why is it important, like for our listeners, I mean, as they're listening, they may be like, well, I can just take care of the problem and fix it myself. What do you mean?

 

Andrea Frederickson: Well, but two things. One, many managers hate having this conversation because like they said, they've never witnessed it. Right. And so they don't even know. It's like, well, here's the standard phrase. Well, it's come to my attention that you're not doing this or not doing that. I'm like, that's code for I don't know what the heck's going on, but somebody tattled on you. Yes. Right. Yes. And so if we can help people understand that if employee A just goes to the other person and creates clarity on what was expected or what conversation the conversation like, hey, I was thinking this or this is what I thought I was getting, or did I misunderstand something or I still need this by 5:00 today and I know you're going to be gone in the next two days. Is that still going to happen? Because I will be here all weekend long If I don't have it right. If we don't have that conversation, then when we take it to someone else without going directly. Now, we like you said, we've eroded that that trust. We've said, you know what, I don't trust you to have a conversation. I don't trust myself or you. In your reaction to my conversation. So I'm going to go someplace else so I don't have to to do that. And that in and of itself starts to erode the trust. It's like, fine, if you're not going to come to me, then I'll go back up to the manager. And now everything is through a third party and it's it's, oh, wait, one. It takes longer. Oh, gotcha. Right. To no one ever has the full story. So having the conversation between those who are involved in the scenario creates efficiency. But it also it's like, Oh, now I know what you mean. Now I understand what you're saying. Oh, I understand the impact it has on you. Yeah. Now we're better this. Yeah. So when we realize things, we've just improved trust or that social capital that like now I get you and increases team building.

 

Michelle Hill: Well and there's also it's when it's coming from the person as they're talking their sincerity there's a lot of things that you as that listener are picking up on and then you have that oh gosh, I didn't realize that they had this going on or I didn't really where that doesn't happen. If the manager goes and talks to them, you as that person complaining, you may hear back or you may not hear back. And even if you hear back, you still really don't get you just get their version of what that person right And they might not even get it. They might just say, hey, I chatted with him, you're good now or whatever, right?

 

Andrea Frederickson: You don't get the whole story, right? Yeah. So so as that leader, first and foremost, we start with it from the very beginning with the interview. Second of all, then we then when that employee comes to you and says, Hey, this is my issue, a lot of times we need to say, So what have you done? Not just what have you said, but what have you done? And most of the times it will be, well, I've sent them 400 emails. Well, apparently after the first two it didn't work. Right.

 

Michelle Hill: And why are we sending that many emails?

 

Andrea Frederickson: Why are we sending the whole other emails? Right. And so it's like, so what have you done? And they'll tell you their side of the story. It's like, so what are your next steps? And sometimes they look at you like, Well, I'm here, aren't I? And the reality is. Talking through that that process where it's like, do you believe this person is doing this just to make you mad? And sometimes they have to stop and think like most of the time they're not doing this to make you mad. You know, most of the time, unless you've got some vendetta against that person, there's an issue where what they're like something other. Something happened. Have you ever forgotten? Have you ever thought you were doing something and had it set aside? But now we're waiting on something else and just haven't kept up somebody in the loop or didn't understand the timeline or the impact or other kinds of things. So having that person. So what's the next step? Which is going to have that conversation? And I and then I always have to repeat, if this is not part of that person's nature. I did not say put another email out.

 

Andrea Frederickson: I said, what is this? What is the conversation you're going to have face to face video over the phone as a last resort, but not over email. And then they're like, okay, but you can still see that they went pale a little bit, right? You can still see that like, uh, okay. So next question is, so do you know how to start this conversation? And I said, I'll usually say, either I want you to go think about how you might start that conversation or I'll give them some examples of, Hey, I was noticing, or I need your help with something. Usually starting off with that opens up the conversation about what you were expecting and what you got. And then help me understand. Like literally, that's the steps. Hey, I need your help. Or Hey, I was looking at something or I was noticing Open up the conversation. It's like you're an idiot. It's not how you start off this conversation, right? Yes. But here's what I was expecting and here's what I thought I understood. Here's what I got. Help me understand. And just looking at that like, oh.

 

Michelle Hill: Right, Well, and it's our if you really pull back the onion there, it's the conversation card. I simply like to ask, have you talked to them yet? Okay, you haven't. So let's get the facts. What is that going to look like kind of scenario, Right. And then if they have that conversation, it is them pointing out, hey, I know we're working together on X or I know we both have this project we're working on. I've got that deadline here. What I've noticed is this. Tell me about it. How do and coming from that place of help as well, right? You want to help them not come in and blame them, Right. Because it's they need to feel. So your approach needs to be calm and caring. They need to feel like you're really just trying to keep things on track. And you just really need to understand where they're at with things, right?

 

Andrea Frederickson: Recognize if you truly believe that person's intentions are good, that's that starts your mindset in a place where crap happens, life happens. We forget. I didn't understand. I misunderstood. You know, all those kinds of things happen to all of us. And, you know, the idea that when somebody else does it, they don't do it wrong. We create it as a character flaw, right? Yes. Versus when we do it. Oh, I didn't understand. There were circumstances or situations. So that's literally that's the fundamental attribution error that in play. But just recognizing that we've got to help people have those conversations. And if if they they think, oh, I have to confront this person, this isn't a confrontation. This is simply I just need to go check it out. I just need to go get clear on what each of us is thinking and if we can have those kinds of conversations, imagine how much more trust there is between coworkers. Because I can go, Hey, Michelle. Hey. I was thinking I was going to have this by the end of the day yesterday, and you either say, Andrea, I completely forgot or you say yes. And I'm just finishing this up because I didn't get the information I needed until after work. Like whatever it is, I can explain it right and go through whatever that that conversation is. So you.

 

Michelle Hill: Um, you. I just. I had a thought and so.

 

Andrea Frederickson: So from a from a leadership perspective. It's important for us to establish this is the rule. This isn't a situation where every situation has that isn't going right, has to be bubbled up through to the manager or the people manager. It's important to create this peer to peer responsibility, the the responsibility and accountability to each other and that you're not expecting people to come to you if they can. And when they solve problems on their own. And we need to be able to reinforce that when we hear somebody do something that might be a little difficult for them to to realize that that's going on. So let's go back to the scenario where we had a coworker who said, Hey, I know this person's intentions were really, really good, are really, really good. What this is doing is not helping. I don't know how to have that conversation. So he taught them to have the conversation. And then the last part that we like to throw in there is okay. And let me know next Friday say how that conversation went. Okay, or give me a deadline. Give them a deadline that you're going to check in with them to see how things are going.

 

Michelle Hill: You want them to check in with you.

 

Andrea Frederickson: You want them to check in with you. But if they don't, you're going to follow up with them to find out. Have you had the conversation? Tell me how it went. Tell me what part was difficult, How did you get through it? And then recognize and reward them for the effort that they put forward, because it's all going to be a work in progress. And so just like when we said, if I am the leader and I have to if I am working toward accountability and holding people accountable, am I clear? What was I expecting? Did I tell them why it was important? What would the impact was? But the last step is always making sure that we follow up. Do we make sure that we said way to go? That's the way it's supposed to be?

 

Michelle Hill: Well, and I think taking us very back to the very beginning, it really is as a leader, our responsibility to create the environment. So interviewing and finding the right people that that believe in helping each other. Right. Expressing the importance and doing things to develop trust and to build trust within the team is going to be really important. Also, I think it's important that we set up environments that people can give each other feedback where maybe we're very intentional, certain, like after a project or after certain scenarios, that the individuals on that take time to say, okay, this is Andrew, this is what you did. That really helped me. And this is something that maybe got in the way. Or can we look at doing this a little different? Because this is this this really kind of set me back or whatever it was. How do we work that out a little better? How do we create some better understanding of where we're at with things, maybe put something more systems in place, but where we are creating that system where feedback is being asked as well. And so sometimes we have to create those events for that. Also, we need to help people develop their emotional intelligence, really, whether it's internal, however you want to do that, but helping people really develop their behaviors, understanding their emotions and what are those things they can do to calm those triggers. So that we can pull back. Because it is about having that caring and calm conversation with that person. So it's that setting the environment that is going to help with creating that peer to peer. And and then how we respond is going to be the other thing. Do we respond with, I'll take care of it? No, we need to respond with. Have you talked to them yet? You haven't. Okay. What do you let's go through what's going on? What's the conversation going to look like? Provide. That's your coaching opportunity right now. Set that expectation of them coming back to you with an update and let them go with it.

 

Andrea Frederickson: And there may be a time where you have to step in because they've done all those things and it hasn't worked. But let's start with making sure that people are having conversations with each other and not elevating it to the manager.

 

Michelle Hill: Leader. Yes. And you're not fixing it all the time.

 

Andrea Frederickson: Yeah. Thanks again for joining us on this episode of The Leadership Hustle. Don't forget to subscribe.