This is a written Transcription for the Leadership Hustle episode about Who is Responsible for Leader Development?, from Season 1 Episode 10.

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Andrea Frederickson: On this episode of The Leadership Hustle, we'll talk about the confusing question about who's responsible for leader development. Hello and welcome to the Leadership Hustle. For executives whose companies are growing fast and need leaders who are ready. All right. Welcome back to the Leadership Hustle for this next episode where we're going to talk about this confusion between who's responsible for leader development. I'm Andrea Fredrickson, your host, and I'm here with Michelle. How are you doing, Michelle? Hello. Great. How are you doing? Good, good. We're getting to record this on a Friday. We've never done this before. No, I would say we should have brought the whiskey. But anyway, we'll keep going anyway. It amazes me the number, the amount of confusion related to who is responsible not only for developing leaders, but like, who's responsible for developing anybody. Right. So just to kick this off, Michelle, what what kind of things are you hearing as it relates to this topic, you know, related to who's responsible, Who's saying what? Let's kick it off.

 

Michelle Hill: You know, things that I'm hearing or things that I've been hearing even through working with clients is oftentimes I'm just going to say that leader of projects or that individual contributor, more often than not, I'm hearing that they're sometimes waiting for that develop like waiting for it, you know, and it's it's like I want to just nudge you right off the edge there because it's like you've got to step up and ask for it. And then while at the same time, what I'm noticing shifting is businesses are starting to talk about we want our individuals to own it themselves so that there is that ownership. But then at the in the same breath, my question is what systems do we have in place that they're aware of? Are we educating them of that? It's available so we can have those conversations and they can own it. So what are what are some of the things you're hearing?

 

Andrea Frederickson: Well, literally, I think I've even mentioned this story before, where where individual contributors or early managers or early leaders, they're kind of waiting for their manager, leader, HR or the business, whoever they are, is supposed to tell them where they're supposed to go from a development perspective. And the leader is saying, What do you want? Where are you going? And and the question like the deer in the headlights look of, oh, I'm supposed to be a part of this, I'm supposed to do this. And so we thought what we would really dispel is, you know, the bottom line is it's a mutual responsibility.

 

Michelle Hill: Yes. When you say mutual, there's three.

 

Andrea Frederickson: Okay. Go through. Go through the three.

 

Michelle Hill: The individual. Yep, the manager, the organization.

 

Andrea Frederickson: And the organization. So let's talk about what the organization in and of itself has to have a culture of development. Yes. They have to have the idea that we want people to be in a different place tomorrow than they were today and that there's going to be an evolution. Well, we know that. But what are the resources that an organization should have is something that all leaders in every company, especially the senior group, should be asking themselves. It's not only an HR responsibility. Correct. So what are some of the things that we think of that should be available or we should be considering as part of our tool kit for organizations so that they can help leaders and individuals develop. What are some of those things?

 

Michelle Hill: Well, I believe where someone in the organization, again, doesn't have to be HR but is identifying who is who is going to help us develop our those leaders. Right. Whether it's an individual contributor or and whether that's an internal training or an external training. Is there a partnership where we're creating with someone or is it something that we're going to be implementing ourselves, right, like internally? And the one thing that I, I do move towards the belief is having consistent options from the similar or same resource because it when we go when we provide individuals training on behavior and leadership per se, right in management, it becomes a common language, right? If everyone is going through the similar things. But if we have people, we've got three people going here, we've got eight people going here. Last year we had 20 people go there. We had ten people. Next year it's a hodgepodge and that's it doesn't impact the culture the same way as if you have one unified but finding and deciding what is that that option going to be available for our people.

 

Andrea Frederickson: So setting up a core leadership philosophy and setting up a standard language that people can use. Just last week I was working with a group and we were talking about the. Concept of time management. It's a management discussed discussion. It is a leader discussion. But the language that is shifted from one session to the next was, Oh, that's a quadrant two behavior. And we spend too much time on quadrant one behavior. And everybody was talking about it and they all understood what it meant versus everybody coming from a different perspective. And the people that were that we were meeting with, they recognized how fast that language just took a life of its own and how it just eliminated some so much confusion because everybody had the same language. Yes. So that that standard core here's the language. Here's the philosophy, here's the promise. Here's the premise is is critical for an organization. Correct. It doesn't mean that we don't bring in other ideas that we can add to it. We can refine those things. But that solid core is is pretty good. Anything else you can think of that organizations benefit from that allows their leaders and those who are developing as resources?

 

Michelle Hill: You know, I think there is the the belief that as a manager, it's my responsibility to help guide provide resources and actually nudge my employees. So to do that, though, there has to be the the the process of developing that belief that people are on that kind of that same page. So then that way, no matter where you're working in that organization, at least the managers are, those peers are all guiding and kind of coaching where they're providing those resources.

 

Andrea Frederickson: So, so senior leadership, those that are establishing what we want the culture to be needs to put in place something that talks about we're in growth, innovation, continuous improvement, and that what that means is we all are responsible, correct? There's there's the thing and then there'll be talking about that as an individual leader during their one on ones and during other events throughout the organization. If we don't establish that we don't, it's going to be very difficult. We'll have individuals, we'll have departments that will do different aspects of what we're talking about. But it really is if you want a culture where we're not only growing financially, but we're growing humans to take on different responsibilities, to be prepared for next jobs and different promotions so that we can bring on new people. As your organization becomes bigger, we don't want to be behind the eight ball, and so we're looking at being proactive rather than reactive. Yes. The other thing that I think that we want to make sure is happening is that everybody, especially if we if we don't have a human resource department or a training department that we're looking for, what are the resources that people can use in developing their folks, especially if there's a specific need? So is there we've got the partnership or we've got a philosophy that is setting up that standard language for everybody, But who are we partnering with for subject matter expertise? Who are we partnering with or where are we going for resources related to very specific, very specific technical aspects of what we're we're doing. Somebody goes to a convention or a workshop. Do they bring back resources that other people can use? Do we have a subscription to something, you know, that that other people have access to and can gain on their own time, the independent learning kinds of opportunities. But we've got to as a company, we have to invest in those resources and let people know about those kinds of things.

 

Michelle Hill: Yes, definitely. We have to be having the conversations. And but consistently from from manager to manager, division leader, whatever. Right? So then that way it's having that ripple down effect and people feel all people feel like you're you care, people feel like you're developing them.

 

Andrea Frederickson: And we have to market those internally. I can't tell you the number of times where I had an individual that was asking me about a resource that we could provide. And I happen to know that they have these other resources internally, but no one's marketing them on the inside. And so have we let people reminded people we have this subscription to this learning platform, we have these, you know, maybe we have a Dave Ramsey follow. You can do some financial development or some things like that, but people have to know about them and then hear about them and find out what the benefits are to doing that. Yes.

 

Michelle Hill: And it's not just during the new hire, because when you first get hired and brought on.

 

Andrea Frederickson: Being bombarded with.

 

Michelle Hill: Drowning. Right. And so, I mean, the least thing that you're really focusing on is this additional learning, because, you know, you're going to be learning a lot of the things that you're going to be. Doing. So it is it's about those later conversations and what are you aspiring and let's just touch base with everyone. We have these resources. When would they be helpful? Who's used these resources at the same time? Right. Right. Get other people talking about them.

 

Andrea Frederickson: Yeah. So let's switch gears. Let's go to the second. So we've got company, the leader, the leader and the employee or the individual. Let's talk about the leader. What are some of the things that that leader should or could be doing to help promote the development of members of their team or other leaders?

 

Michelle Hill: Well, which we've already talked about in the past, but one on one's I think it hits to one in team meetings making sure that we are educating them on maybe some new releases and just the awareness of the different resources, if anything's new added. But then at the same time, those one on ones, it's, you know, obviously asking them the questions about what are they aspire, what do they want to try out, what do they want to check into? What do they want to know, even shadow or something. And if there are some things that hit that behavioral piece, let's just say, for example. Let's just say they're working on the phones via or Internet, whatever, via the customers, and they want to get better at asking open ended questions and listening. Just some of those things. It's like, okay, well, here are some resources that are out here as well. So it's helping them be aware that these are things that the system or the business already has in place for them to utilize.

 

Andrea Frederickson: Right. And I think that we get so caught up in, oh, we need to develop our people that we always think of courses. Now, mind you, we love courses. That's part of our business, right? But let's add to that. We have experiences people need. So whether it's shadowing someone who is particularly good at verbalizing things, attending meetings or events where people are doing things or thinking about things or talking about things that they that the particular leader has not been involved with before. Maybe they're leading a committee and they've never led a committee before that they can or a project plan that we can get them involved with. They're going to learn, they're going to make some mistakes, but we have to give people those experiences so that they can develop the skills. And some of the episodes we've got coming up, we're talking about leadership versus management, and we've mentioned some of this before that that we have people who don't have experiences in tough decisions or they don't have experience in getting people who they don't have authority over to get things done. And how do you motivate someone without using a hammer? And so giving people those tools and resources to to do that, I think is is super powerful for their leader development experience.

 

Michelle Hill: Definitely. Well, and also the feedback. How good of a job are we doing you know as that manager of finding out what is it they want to get better at and then when they're provided opportunities to do it, like let's even just say, for example, a manager decides they have department meetings once a month and let's have different people in the department run the meeting versus the manager. So now they get experience in setting up and creating agendas and and running that. And then it's like, okay, let's, let's give some feedback Then What feedback? Is there anything specific you want feedback on or is there anything you want me to watch for while you're doing that? But it really is about providing those opportunities to to give the feedback that that person is looking for or even debriefing.

 

Andrea Frederickson: What did you think went well? What would you do different next time? Look at, you know, is there another resource that, you know, is this a meeting of brainstorming or is this a a meeting of just information dissemination? Like what's the purpose of that meeting? And and how are we giving people resources on how to lead a meeting and then saying, okay, what would I do different now that I've experienced it? Yes.

 

Michelle Hill: Yeah. It's funny because yesterday I spent often we kind of veered into the meetings and then this morning on a zoom we were having conversations about meetings and a gentleman has been promoted. He's going to be having a meeting in front of an executive team for the first time because he's replaced someone who retired. And I was like, okay, let's think about a couple of things. Let's what's your agenda? What do you want them? Is there anything you want to have them read beforehand so you're not just spitting out information to them, right? So they can kind of think and process it and come up with ideas? What is the purpose of this meeting? Is it brainstorming? We're making a decision. And I said, And then when you go into it, let people know at the end you want to know, What did you like about how I facilitated this meeting? Because it's different compared to who had been doing it for years. What did you like about it? What did I not do that you wish I did? Well, you're capturing that feedback at the very end. And he's like, I never thought about that.

 

Andrea Frederickson: So so that would be a learning opportunity of coaching that if you weren't from a third party helping this, this particular person as the leader of that person, you could be doing or having exactly the same conversation, Correct. And so you as a leader looking at where is the person now doing a little bit of an assessment on where could they possibly be challenged? How do we take them out of their comfort zone and stretch? Because as we said before, you don't learn until you let go of the current belief that you already have or the current habit that you already have. So thinking about what those are, so from a leader perspective of others. Knowing what your resources are looking at or asking the person, what is it that that you would like to have become? Do experience those kinds of things? What's important, providing the feedback of for that person. But also some people don't know what they don't know. And so just considering so if you wanted to take on. More responsibility in the same position, or if you want to become better in the position that you're in or take on a different role altogether. These are the kinds of things that you might want to become better at or have experiences at. Introduce to and introduce them to your employee. And so you can't simply be like, Oh, I don't know what the employee's goal should be because it's a performance evaluation time. We don't have to wait till performance evaluation time to have this conversation. So referring back to one on ones, the episode before this or previous to this, you need to be thinking about how to help support and nudge that particular individual. It doesn't have to be a leader. It can be an individual contributor. Same process, same concepts apply.

 

Michelle Hill: And provide them those options and then let them decide what is important and have them identify the goals they want to work on and randomly, you know, what feedback can I provide you that's going to be important. Now the third one is going to be the individual contributor, right? Right. And that individual contributor has to have just as much buy in energy motivation because they're the ones having to do the actual work, which is hence the reason we want them to do the goal versus the manager writing the goal for them.

 

Andrea Frederickson: Well, and so often they're waiting for the leader to tell them, well, individual employee, regardless of the role or title that you have. They have a responsibility in their development as well. And from the day they walk in the door, that has to be an understood message. Yes, because otherwise they're waiting for you to say something. And as a leader of that person, you're like, Where's your initiative? Where's your gumption? Where's your where's that going? Of course, it's great if you've got somebody who takes the initiative, but you already but you may not know what they are learning because they're doing it on their own. They've just they're just evolving, which is fine. But it's still important for that individual to say, okay, person I'm working with, person I report to. Here are some things that I have been thinking about. What if I were to? Move into this other role. What were the what would be the things that I would need to learn or how would I get there? Lidar can give you that feedback or, you know, in this position I'm thinking there's some way that I can automate this. What would you think if I did some research on how to automate this and see what it could happen? I mean, most leaders are like, Please do that. Please do that. Please make life.

 

Michelle Hill: Easier.

 

Andrea Frederickson: But as an individual contributor, if you see something that could be better done, better, it's stronger, it's faster, it's more robust, it's going to add value to your customer, internal or external. Let's let's work on it or talk to the person that you lead, because maybe it takes time that we don't have right now available, or maybe there's a resource that they know about that can help you. But as that individual, we've got to be asking.

 

Michelle Hill: You got to be asking questions, you got to be speaking up. You've got to be thinking. You've got to be observing. So when I say observing, it's like observing. And being curious about the business in general, Right. And growth opportunities, not. Removing that mindset that there's nowhere for me to grow because you don't know about the possibilities. A year from now, the business could look really different. But if we stick into that mindset that, oh gosh, you know, we've got everyone's been here for a very long time and no one's. No one's retiring anytime soon. There really isn't anywhere for me to grow. That's an assumption, and it's usually false.

 

Andrea Frederickson: Well, I mean, your own life, Like Michelle, you've been working with us for 18 plus years, right? I'm guessing. I'm guessing they're like, So what's the next job is mine. Right. And so she's learning all those things, but she's been waiting a long time, and I'm hoping she's waiting a little longer for her role into mine. But that hasn't stopped her from taking the initiative to learn or add or adjust or, Hey, what do you think of or teaching me?

 

Michelle Hill: Well, kind of going into where I like to hang out versus where you like to hang out. You like to hang out. Really love to hang out with family businesses, right? I don't mind family businesses, but that's not my passion. So I'll learn on that. You can keep that. I'll help when needed, but I love helping family businesses. But yeah, that's your that gets you excited. But yeah, finding those other little niches or those little things that I get excited about and learning and navigating through that emotional.

 

Andrea Frederickson: Intelligence, the brain science stuff, that's the stuff that you keep bringing to us. So, you know, this is an episode where some people are like, Oh, we don't need to talk about who's responsible for leader development. And yet I bet this is a question at least once a week that comes up in some way, shape or form that who's responsible. So from a from from tying this up, does your company have the resources available for leader development and do they have a common language that is established on how things are going to be talked about and and how do we move things forward so that things can be built on from a foundation? Do we have that information and are we marketing it?

 

Michelle Hill: Are we marketing it? Are we marketing? We've got an internal.

 

Andrea Frederickson: Market it Second, do the leaders understand that they have a a solid responsibility not only to develop people to do the current job that they have today, but also to give them give people experiences so that they may choose to consider other roles or responsibilities within the organization, whether it's an elevated position or a lateral position or some way that they can contribute in some other way, like project management or committees or things like that that we have to give them. We have to give information to employees, but also give them feedback. And third, that the employee has to understand from the day they walk in the door that they have just as much responsibility for their development as the leader that they have, that they report to.

 

Michelle Hill: They have to speak up.

 

Andrea Frederickson: Thanks for joining us on this episode of The Leadership Hustle. Don't forget to subscribe.