How Effective Coaching Cultivates Independent Thinking

This is a written Transcription for the Leadership Hustle episode about How Effective Coaching Cultivates Independent Thinking, from Season 1 Episode 35.

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Transcript:

Andrea Frederickson: In this episode of The Leadership Hustle, we'll talk about the transformational power of coaching. Hello, and welcome to the Leadership Hustle for executives whose companies are growing fast and need leaders who are ready. So welcome back to the Leadership Hustle podcast. I'm Andrea Fredrickson and I am joined with Michelle. Hello. Joined by Michelle. With Michelle I don't know. Anyway I'm here Michelle's here. Whatever you want to call it. We're good. We're good. Um, today we are going to discuss a little bit about coaching. And so we're going to do a couple of episodes here in a row about coaching. But let's get started with this topic. And Michelle. Ravella. We do a lot of coaching, so we kind of have a belief about coaching. But so what do you think our belief about coaching is? I mean, I don't know that we've ever had this face to face conversation said, yeah, what do we believe?

Michelle Hill: Well, and okay, I'm going to rephrase it. What do I believe? Okay. Which it does. Um, I mean, obviously that my beliefs are influenced by our conversations and.

Andrea Frederickson: Well, and we've been hanging around together for 19 years, so we may have some.

Michelle Hill: I'm sure there's a little cross over right there. Um, but when we, you know, when I think of coaching, I truly believe it's the most valuable tool for growth, uh, because, I mean, we do a lot of group sessions, right? And so forth. But when which I think is extremely valuable as well. But when you get into then that next level of, let's take this information we've talked about in a group and let's talk about this one on one. And what are you thinking and what's your belief about it. What's your barriers? I mean, it's because it's to me the coaching piece is a huge piece of that aha moment. It's it's where through whether it was through something they read or other conversations or they bring a problem, it's them having the oh, I hadn't thought about it this way or challenging their belief system because, you know, they're they're hitting a barrier and, or they're just not getting the results they want, but they just they have all they have blind spots. And so that coaching where you can really hone in on having the one on one conversation is where you can ask them some questions that cause them to think differently. Now, they may not always like that, right? But it causes them to think differently. And then it opens up for some dialogue of what can we learn, what can we do a little differently and, and, or what's our barrier, which is those blind spots as well. Because if we don't first address our belief system, it's always going to be a barrier there, because that starts that whole phase of how we're going to interact and accept, receive information. What do I believe about you versus um, so it's it's really inward. Uh, in that case, okay. So yeah, I know I just kind of went a lot of directions there, but what so you sum it up, I guess just kind of what do you think? Like when you, when you think about why, why coach so so coaching.

Andrea Frederickson: There's so many different types, which is a whole nother episode that we're going to to address that topic. But coaching is in my mind, it's giving giving people information so that they can learn and grow and develop. And then. Ultimately what they're trying to do is improve, whatever that is. And part of the coaching isn't only getting people to be curious and to consider things, but I think it's also the willingness to accept the perspective of someone else. I'm not saying you have to believe all the perspectives. I'm not saying that you have to take everything 100% as it is delivered. What I think is that coaching is giving people information, giving people the opportunity to think about or consider something that is going to help them be a better version of themselves. And so feedback is a huge part of of coaching, but it's equally as important as the thinking about something the, the considering the have we thought about what do you think about something. And so those are the kinds of things that we talk about from a coaching perspective. So, you know. The. The whole issue, though, about coaching is there's so many reasons why people don't coach. So let me give you an example of of something that happened recently. Um, we had an we had a person that I was coaching, and this person was going through a series or a scenario of, of situations, and the employee, um, brought them, um, a situation and the I asked the I asked the executive, I said, what did you do? I said, well, I coached them. I'm like, what do you mean you coached them?

Michelle Hill: What does that mean exactly?

Andrea Frederickson: Like I coach them. I said, tell me the story. Like what? What did you do or what did you like? Give me a word for word. Like what did you do? Well, they asked me a question. I asked them, what did they do already? I'm like, okay, that's a good start. Yeah. And then what? Well, I told him what to do. I'm like, I'm like, that's telling. Yes, that's just telling you where to start with an answer.

Michelle Hill: Yeah. It was a great opener.

Andrea Frederickson: Right, right right right.

Michelle Hill: What have you done so far.

Andrea Frederickson: And so I was like, is that coaching or is that telling. And so you know people have lots of definitions about what coaching is. Can they ultimately improve from that. Maybe. Right. They maybe they they're basically asking you a question. You give them an answer, they go scurry off and they go do the thing right. I think there's more to it than that.

Michelle Hill: And because I well, I think there could be a component of teaching in there, but I think it all depends on when you just give when you tell. Have they had other experiences that were similar to this? Have we've gone through something like this? Because if it's something that that has never hit anyone, like we've never discussed or worked through or anything like that, there is some opportunity to, you know, have you thought about this, you know, kind of conversation that bordering the telling, the teaching?

Andrea Frederickson: We call that a directive disguised as a question.

Michelle Hill: But if it's if it's something that they should have some knowledge or experience around, that's where the telling isn't as effective. You just you're conditioning them just to come to you all the time, right, to get the answer.

Andrea Frederickson: And so let's let's step back. Why do people not really coach? Because I think that, you know, part of this episode is the discussion of, you know, we need to give people feedback, but ultimately why do we need to coach versus. Just answer the question. Just tell people, why do people not do that though?

Michelle Hill: Well, I know I hear people say they don't coach or they don't say they don't coach, but they say it it it takes too long. Um. I know the answer better than they do.

Andrea Frederickson: We don't have time. We know we don't have time. I'm busy.

Michelle Hill: Let's. I just it's quicker. I'm just going to give them the answer and and and then. But they also have the belief that if they give them the answer, that person will know how to use it next time. And that's the that's the downfall is because then it's like, okay, well, how often are people coming to you with questions? And when you ask that question and if they actually do a study to kind of track it, they find, oh gosh, people are constantly asking me questions. And it's because you created that environment. You're giving them the answer all the time. They don't think on their own. You think for them.

Andrea Frederickson: Right, right.

Michelle Hill: Right. But they have all these, you know, these beliefs that it's it's just faster. I know more than they do. They don't have these experiences. Even a a person who's new in an organization, people will assume because they're new in an organization, they don't know anything. And it's like you hired them for reasons that they add value, right? Right. That you hire them because you believe they they they bring some some information, there's some knowledge and some experiences. So when you get them in there, then you treat them like they're a little kid and they don't have any knowledge. And it's like, no, you got to find out what they think. Uh, what ideas do they have? And they quickly go to that mindset that, well, they're new, they don't know, or they've only been here a couple of years. You don't know what you don't know. And by giving them answers you now still don't know what they know, right?

Andrea Frederickson: So so one of the things that I hear people talk about is they think they're coaching. So we have we have leaders who think they're coaching simply by responding to questions, by giving an answer. Okay. So I get that there's there's a group of folks and I remember having this conversation with my dad, my I would ask my dad a question and he would start facilitating an answer from me. And I get the fact that's like annoying. Just tell me the flippin answer. Just I just need to know yes or no, right or left, blue or red, whatever. Like, just give me an answer. Right. And and he would laugh when I do that. So I get that there is. A place to give just an answer because somebody asked you a question? Yes. We want people, though, in certain circumstances, to own more of the information. If somebody is asking me a question or if I've been asked a question and I really don't have an opinion or it's not really important, the answer that I give, I need to be able to say, this is yours, you own this. Is there something about this question that you can't get the information from or you're really struggling with? Or is it simply you need the permission for something because you have the permission, whatever the answer is. So, you know, just what is that? And that's the coaching part that is happening. But people just blurt out an answer and they think that they're coaching. I'm like, nope, that's blurting out an answer. Yes, yes.

Michelle Hill: Well, I find helpful too, when you bring on new employees. One. If you just start always asking them questions, they because the type of question we ask can actually can sometimes feel. I might feel I have to defend myself. It might not feel you may be coming. You may have good intentions and wanting to help me learn. Right? But the way you ask the questions might feel like you're interrogating. Like you're questioning my judgment. Like you don't believe in me or you don't trust me or whatever. Right? So one, I think asking open ended questions and putting our intentions up front, I want to help you or you, I, you know, you I want you to own this. This is something you can own. So let's talk a little more about this. I've got some questions and then go into some of those questions can help that person feel safer. But also when you first bring someone in and you're working with them, I think it's helpful to kind of create a little bit of, okay, when things are going on and you have questions, I three things do you just want to do you just want me to listen and you just want to think out loud and bounce things. But you really don't want my opinion or anything. You just want to think and or just blow off steam. Do you, um, do you want me to challenge you and ask you questions for learning purposes?

Andrea Frederickson: Poke holes and something.

Michelle Hill: Poke holes in something? Or do you are you at a point, a breaking point this very moment that whatever you want to call it. But that's kind of what it is that you just need the damn answer. Right? And so at this moment, just give me the damn answer and that will help you then get your reset, maybe calm your emotions a little bit. And that very well could be a follow up conversation, though. It's not going to end here with me just giving you that answer. It will end at the moment, but maybe at our one on one or whatever, we're going to talk about it so we can help, help ensure there's going to be a little more gaining of understanding, building that knowledge. Right.

Andrea Frederickson: Well, sometimes it's just a resource they need. Yeah, it isn't even us that needs to answer the question. It is oh so and so has better information than I do about this. Here is a website. Or here is another resource that you could use to help you solve this. Because I'm no different in the expectations or the understanding of this than you are. You know something that you said about asking these questions I want to bring up as it relates to some of the myths of, of of of coaching. So. I'm a believer. So this is an opinion I want you I want you to understand that this is an opinion that. In order for us to coach that, we have to ask questions. So if you've listened to some of the other episodes of our podcast, you've heard us say it's not just about the questions for the coaching, because like you said, some questions lead to interrogation or a feeling of interrogation. And that's a lot of the who, what, when, where, why and how. So even using the word why, if someone asks you the A question using why did you do that? You feel like you have to defend yourself. Oh yeah.

Michelle Hill: Your brain starts going into I got to protect fight or flight, right? And you shut down.

Andrea Frederickson: But if I'm asking the question, why did you do that? I'm not really asking the judgment question. I'm curious because they don't understand. But using the word why already sets up that domino effect. And so, um, if you choose to ask questions, that's fine. Open ended questions are good. We do a lot of promoting of statements that lead to bigger answers. So tell me more about the process you used. Give me an example of how that would work if we chose to implement X. Yes. Um, explain the process that you have envisioned in this. Explain what you've done already. You know, you know, some of those kinds of statements are much more conducive to discussion and dialogue as opposed to defending. Yes. You know what's going on.

Michelle Hill: Yes. And I always like to even add, though, just it's that intention up front to help me understand or to I want to I want to really kind of understand your perspective on this process and those steps that you've taken or that you think, you know, that you kind of are planning on taking. Walk me through that. So now I've told them up front because I want to help, right? I want to help. So, uh, and I don't want to make assumptions. So walk me through what those steps might look like so we can kind of talk about it and, and work through that. But having that intention why are you asking those questions also helps bring down that fear. Right. So because a lot of times we just go into the question and that person doesn't know why you're asking it, but of course, because it goes back to weave yourself through our intentions, right? They view us through our actions so they miss that important piece. It's our intention.

Andrea Frederickson: So. Coaching. Yes. Why? Why should people be coached versus just given an answer like what's, what's the what's the benefit of coaching? And we're talking about manager leader to employee employee. Right. Yeah. What's, what's what's the reason what's the compelling case for it.

Michelle Hill: Well again opinion but in my belief, I believe it causes a person to, you know, have to pause and think and process and kind of go back through what do they know, what do they not know? And, um, you know, really put put some thoughts together. Right. You know, it feels like when working with organizations, so many people are and we find ourselves as well. You're just like, you're on that, that gerbil wheel just going, going, going, going, going. Right. And you're not really learning. You're not really growing because you're just you're just knocking shit out. And that doesn't necessarily mean that we're, we're, we're we're getting better as an individual or as a leader in the organization, either or a leader, no matter what your title is. Um, but it causes people to have to pause for a moment. It causes them to have to slow down, and it causes them to have to think. I also believe that, well, there is some research on people do things for their own reasons, not yours. Right. Um, so getting into that science, you know, behind our brain that when you ask those questions, you're causing them to pause, slow down and think, but then also work through a solution. That solution is now more their idea. So now you've that that level, you know, people always say when we're chatting with them why why were they interested in in working with us. Well, we need our people to be accountable. And well, I think you just need your people to have more ownership. And there's a flip in the accountability and ownership. Right? Uh, I mean, they they really are the same to a certain degree. But how do you help people gain or believe they have ownership? And part of that is through putting it back on them to figure it out themselves. Right. Because now they that's it's their idea. They don't want their idea to fail. Right. So, um.

Andrea Frederickson: Yeah. So so so looking at this.

Andrea Frederickson: Is the day to day coaching. These are the in the moment just in time which are perfect. People need to have coaching opportunities. There's also you know having coaching from the outside. And this isn't a commercial for that. This is simply people believe that coaching from the outside is expensive. And. With regard to coaching from the outside regardless to price, right? This is more of a sometimes you need somebody from the outside who's not emotionally involved with any kind of scenario, you know, because maybe the employee doesn't understand the impact that they're having on other people, and they need some coaching, they need some feedback, they need some perspective that where the coach doesn't have a dog in the hunt, it's simply, I'm here to provide you this information. Now let's walk through, talk through, um, discover things that we can. You know one. Do you believe it? All those kinds of things. But you have to get feedback and be coached by someone to to move things forward. Managers and leaders can do those things, but the outside perspective can sometimes give you that. I'm doing it because I have somebody who is supporting me, not because I'm going to be fired or promoted, or they're going to think more or less of me because of the things I'm going to share about my emotions and my feelings and my my struggles and my heartaches that come along with that.

Michelle Hill: Because, yes, people are going to. Protect themself. And if, if, if I share with you how I'm feeling, it can that can maybe impact my future. That might prevent you from promoting me or looking, you know, at me for a promotion. So I definitely agree that that outside perspective, there is a bit of a, there's a lot of actually where it's people just feel safer. Mhm. Uh, so it's confidential and a manager might say well my employees feel safe around me. We trust each other, you know. And you probably do. I mean I'm sure you do trust each other and I'm sure those things are. But there is still something there. You're controlling their future to a certain degree. Right. And so that kind of hangs over their thought process. I think the other thing that is really valuable from that outside perspective is because we're not in it. We don't see the day to day. We don't experience what they experience. Uh, it allows us to ask more really honest, curious questions that. A manager may make a lot of assumptions off of. Right. Because they're in it. Right? Where? Because we're not in it. I don't know what they do. I don't understand the process. So I can ask a question. Well, walk me through, what's your current process like that? You know, and what's working, what's not. Where did you.

Andrea Frederickson: Say, how did you say it? And then and.

Michelle Hill: Then how they said it. Right. So we'll just tell me how you said that. Oh, okay. I can now give him feedback on. Well, I could see how that could be perceived in a couple of different ways. One could be this and this. Obviously, I'm not the receiver in that case, but had you thought about, you know, what do you think about if do you think they could have received it as a um, in a negative tone or whatever. Right. And because when you're hearing it with no, again, with, with not having that baggage, it allows you to give them other perspectives. I do believe on that coaching side, I believe it's important that whoever is that person's coach, that they. They trust them.

Andrea Frederickson: It has to be a good match.

Michelle Hill: Yeah, it has to be a good match. Because if they don't, or if they don't believe that person can help them, and there could be a there could be a belief that prevents them from an outside coaching because, well, you don't work in our industry or you don't work in our company. How can you coach, uh, if they have that belief system that it doesn't work? Then that's exactly what they're going to take out of it. They're going to take out of it. It doesn't work right. And so making sure that this person wants it, they're open. And um, and they there's, there's some initial getting to build some trust with that coach.

Andrea Frederickson: So, so in this in this episode of of about coaching. Just like what's the reason for coaching and what's the compelling reason for having coaching. Like you truly just want people to improve. Yes. And I think that if you recognize that telling is not training, if you just have the thought and it never reaches their their ears, nothing's happening, nothing's changing. Ultimately, we want people to improve. And so. As a leader, that's probably your biggest role is coaching and developing people, not simply giving them the answer to everything? Yes. If you're looking for more resources as it relates to leadership or maybe even some coaching, we have links in the show notes. And don't forget to subscribe so that you never miss another episode.