Unlocking Company Culture: Actual vs. Aspirational

This is a written Transcription for the Leadership Hustle episode about Unlocking Company Culture: Actual vs. Aspirational, from Season 1 Episode 18.

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Andrea Frederickson: So here's a question is how you describe the culture of your company different than the way your employees do? And in fact, when you describe the culture of your company, is it accurate or is it aspirational? In today's episode of The Leadership Hustle, we'll talk a little bit about how important culture is and how to get it right. Hello and welcome to The Leadership Hustle. For executives whose companies are growing fast and need leaders who are ready. Today with the leadership hustle, we're going to talk a little bit about this, this culture and how how often we hear leaders talk about their culture. And when I say, so, tell me about your culture. And they point to the wall and it's got their 5 or 8 values on it. And they say that's their culture. And yet when you go and talk to the employees of their company, they, they, they say, well, yeah, we know those are the words or we've heard those words, we talk about those words, but that really, you know, yeah, we kind of like them. But it's like that isn't really our culture. So, you know, we thought as we were talking about this, this episode, that we should really talk about what culture is. And when we talk about and describe culture, you know, how do we talk about it? And then how do we get culture right? Right. So what are some of the things that you often hear people say when you say, tell me about your culture? Are there some specific kinds of things that you hear people say that like kind of raise your red flag, I guess?

Michelle Hill: Yeah, I mean, I would say the biggest is they talk about their values. And like you had already said, so what you often will hear or see as well as as they're interviewing. So part of it will be, oh, the values. And we have our values as part of the hiring process. And then we have our values as, as part of the annual evaluations or whatever their evaluation process is or their part of their one on ones. So I'm hearing that they're doing things to help guide what they desire. But the question really is, but what really is your culture? Because often times when they're frustrated or things are not going as planned, you know, it's it's what are you saying yes and no to. Because what really what you're demonstrating, role modeling, approving or not approving in regards to people's behaviors is how we work together.

Andrea Frederickson: Right? Well, and people misunderstand that values they think values are the culture. Values are simply values, things that we hold together or we believe in. And sometimes even what they call values aren't values, they're non-negotiables or their guiding principles, or this is how we treat each other. But it's, you know, we just throw out this term that and we lump them all in together. And then we say, well, that's our culture. And it's like, well, that's that's really not what culture is, right? Yes. So let's, let's just talk a little bit about what culture is. And by definition, culture is how people do things within a specific group, like how they are their social, how their common beliefs, how they interact with each other, who does what, how things are happening. And in our regular life outside of business, there are all kinds of different cultures we're part of. So our family has the culture, the culture. Right. And so who do you have? A culture where we we appreciate and enjoy eating together as a family? Do we do things together because that's how we want our family culture to be? Do we celebrate things together or is our culture? Perhaps. Maybe we have lots of independence. People come and go as they please. There's a lot of independence in how they do what they do. And so the culture is set up as that. Or we can think about our different pockets or groups of friends. There's different kinds of cultures there. Who does what. What kinds of things do we do with these kinds of friends? Who sets things up? Who organizes it? What kinds of things do we do? So when you look at it outside the business, it's really obvious to see how different those cultures can be.

Michelle Hill: Yes, and I think it's really obvious when you go to the family side of things, because oftentimes what's driving the culture and the family often will start with the grandparents and ripple down to, you know, parents traditions. Yes, it's those traditions. And so then the, you know, as as children are growing, are being raised, there are these expectations. There's these this is what we do in our family. This is, you know, they parents and grandparents, you know, role model it. And they also then expect it. And if if there's if a child's not meeting that expectation then they have a conversation about it. It's not there's.

Andrea Frederickson: Like they don't fit here. So we're going to move them out of the family.

Michelle Hill: Not that. But there is the conversation. And it's no, this is what we do as a family. And so it's it's something that's talked about though. It's something that people are held accountable for. But we don't.

Andrea Frederickson: Call it culture even though that's really that's what it.

Michelle Hill: Is. Yeah. No.

Andrea Frederickson: And so when when leaders talk to us about, you know, we need to get our culture aligned, you have to decide what you want your culture to be, because right now there is a culture.

Michelle Hill: Oh, there's always culture.

Andrea Frederickson: Things happen. How people get along is is it? We have companies where when people reply to something, they say, thank you. It's like, well, that's part of the culture. Or do we not say thank you? And replying to an email, do we collaborate together? Do we do we want a culture where we include psychological safety and people are encouraged to challenge, question or challenge each other with questions and debate things and get to the truth? Or is this only the manager can do that, and only the manager can ask the questions.

Michelle Hill: Well, and your cultures too is how do we work together? So do we work just within our teams or do you know? And which is going to be maybe silo like, or do we work across the organization. And so the things that we do every day is going to either demonstrate we just really function within our teams because that's where we hang out. That's the expectation. We're really it's not even as you bring on a new person, it's it's you collaborate potentially with individuals versus if you have a culture that you want people to be inclusive of all the other areas so that they're working together as one team, not just a department, right? Then you're going to hear them talking about when we have a problem, you need to be thinking about who all does this impact. And let's bring those people together. Right. And you're setting those expectations with with individuals and how we work together.

Andrea Frederickson: Right. So some companies that we work with, one of their values, one of their guiding principles, one of their non-negotiables is being collaborative. And so if you have those words. So my question is as people are being interviewed for positions, they say, well these are our values. And so that demonstrates our culture. The question in most cases would be is that a lie or so is it or is it aspirational or is it actual? And I think that people who are sometimes recruiting and describing who they want to bring into the company, they say, well, we have a very collaborative environment. And then if you go into the business, the business is not very collaborative. It's it's a work in progress or the.

Michelle Hill: Department because I think you can have different cultures, different ways of how we get work done based off of the different areas of the business, especially as they're spread apart more, whether it's floors, sections, buildings, states, those all are going to have a ripple effect. So you might be hiring in and possibly the people interviewing initially. They may be very well have a very collaborative environment, but the position, the area that they're hiring for and that person gets in there, which that may be something that draw them, drew them there right when they get over there, it's like, well, you all might be collaborative, but this is not collaborative, right?

Andrea Frederickson: So, you know, as as our recruiters are talking, we can say we're working on an environment that is becoming more collaborative. We you know, we have pockets that are really very collaborative. And we're still working across department lines. We're we're helping our leaders become better at that. And each individual that's true. That's that's an if they're working if they're working on it.

Michelle Hill: Yes. And they aspire and they communicate it and they do things to help support and develop it, then that's true, right? If they say that and then really you get in there and you don't see anything, you don't hear anything, nothing's really happening. Everyone's just doing their own thing, then that's not true, right?

Andrea Frederickson: Our leaders, as we talk to them, we we hear them say, yes, we're hiring for cultural fit. I'm like, what does that really mean to you? You know, does it mean, well, they they abide by our values or we you know, in many cases when people are hiring for culture fit, it is they think like us. They believe in the things that we believe in. They act like us. So things like and I really struggle with that because is that the culture you're trying to create where everybody thinks and acts alike, or do you want to create a culture where you contribute to the environment, where you're challenging people and you're asking good questions and you're debating and you're you're allowed to bring your life experiences and perspectives to the table or, oh, we don't want to hire you because we'll have a different philosophy on this, or they have a different belief in this, or their experiences aren't similar to ours. And so it's going to be more challenging because we have to have these debate conversations.

Michelle Hill: I mean, with that scenario though, either you're going to have a culture where people feel safe to speak up and it's desired wanted, and we do something with it, or we're going to have a culture where everyone disagrees with the leader of that department, and they make the decisions and everyone just follows along, right? So I mean, that's that's part of the culture, which which is it that we have?

Andrea Frederickson: Of. So.

Andrea Frederickson: So let's go back to the beginning where we talked about doo. Do the leaders describe the culture differently than the employees do. And if they're one do you know. So like how would you describe the culture of the business going out and finding out how they would describe it and helping employees understand the culture isn't just the values, it's how does stuff get done? How do we communicate? What are the what are the things that are friction points? What are when we run into a friction point, how do we deal with it? How do we solve that problem? But I think it's also truly important to decide what is the culture that you want, and then make sure that the behaviors that we demonstrate are supporting that from the hiring to the day to day. So I saw a comic just recently where hiring manager or the yeah, the hiring manager is talking to their employee and and they're saying to this, this employee, it's like, well, you lied on your resume. And the employee turns around and is like, yeah, but you lied on your job description and your company perspective. I'm like, because what they were trying to say is, this is what we are, and versus this is where we're going. And, you know, just some things like that. It's like we don't want there to be a lie. We don't want there to be a missed mention. What we want to talk about is what is what is what are we doing? Where do we want to go?

Michelle Hill: Yeah, it's the culture, how we get things done. There's a bit of that accountability. Again, going back to what we approve or what we say it's okay to do versus not do right. But it is working on identifying what what is that look like. And then what are we as leaders doing to demonstrate it? What are we doing to get check points? And really kind of I want to say check the pulse, check the temperature, whatever that word is to to get a feel for how how people are behaving. And some of it's just observing to how people interact. And some people just.

Andrea Frederickson: Don't even know that what they're doing is taking away from the culture we're trying to build. It's just a habit of what they're doing. Yes, a.

Michelle Hill: Person who just likes to solve problems, solve the problems, solve problems, is not going to be a person who's collaborating, right? Because they're going to go in there. And this is how we're going to solve this is we're going to do let's go. Exactly. And did anyone get to collaborate? No they didn't. Right. And then people just get conditioned for that to happen. So then they just all wait for that person to solve the problem.

Andrea Frederickson: And the scenario where we've we've come up with a solution and somebody doesn't agree with it. And does that person, whether it's their personality or we create the environment where it makes it easier for somebody to challenge somebody's idea, you know, does the person react in a way where it's ugly and or even just bitter beer face, as we call it? Right. That's like, how do we help the environment become more conducive to supporting the things that we're trying to to accomplish in our culture? Culture has to be intentional. Very. If you if you are looking for something very specific, if you're not, just let it be. Just let it because it exists and it's probably very fragmented. And your company will have an outside reputation for the culture that exists. Glassdoor will show up, referrals will will be talked about in that way, how many people are coming and going from the organization. All those things are demonstrating how the culture actually is. Yes. And some of those things are priceless, right? So yeah, lining up the culture and being intentional about it and making sure that what we are doing as leaders is not aspirational unless we tell us telling people we're working on it, and you literally are, and.

Michelle Hill: You are working on it. So you have to look in the mirror. And also, if you want a collaborative environment, are you collaborative? Right. Because you're setting the example. Right.

Andrea Frederickson: Thanks for joining us on this episode of The Leadership Hustle. Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss another episode.