Leading with Vulnerability

This is a written Transcription for the Leadership Hustle episode about Leading with Vulnerability, from Season 1 Episode 29.

Listen to the full episode below, or click here to listen on your podcast platform of choice.

Andrea Frederickson: How do you build credibility and trust with your team? In this episode of The Leadership Hustle, we'll discuss how vulnerability has an impact on the trust of your team. Hello, and welcome to the Leadership Hustle for executives whose companies are growing fast and need leaders who are ready. Hey, it's Andrea Fredrickson here. And I've got Michelle joining me today. Hello. I was going to say good morning. But you guys don't know I don't know what time you guys are listening today. So anyway, the topic today is about vulnerability. And as a leader using that vulnerability to your benefit. But the reality is, you know, we've had this conversation recently with quite a few folks that we coach. Um, there's been well, for for specifics, I was coaching a gentleman who was a leader of leaders, and we did his 360, and it came back that he was having some difficulty relating to other people. And I what I said to him was, you need to be you know, show more vulnerability. And his response was, I am not going to air all my dirty laundry to all my people. I'm like, all right, we've got a misunderstanding about what vulnerability is and things like that. So as we get started, you know, let's talk a little bit about what does it mean to be vulnerable as a leader. Yes. And then we can kind of go into why even go down that path. Okay.

Michelle Hill: Well just kind of flipping this. So when you think about it in the workplace, right. Kind of let's single it into the workplace. What is your definition. How do you define.

Andrea Frederickson: So I talk about vulnerability as the ability to recognize, you know, when you've made a mistake and to come clean about yeah I did that wrong. I could have done that better. Um, being vulnerable, even sharing. When you've made mistakes in the past, what you've learned from it, definitely. And looking at those scenarios where, um, you're not really keeping that arm's length away from people, you're letting them in and getting letting them know you a little bit. I'm not asking people to tell what goes out, you know, goes on behind closed doors or, you know, tell all your shortcomings. I'm not asking about all of those things, but just when you've made a mistake or when you've made a situation where you've learned something from those scenarios or the things that you go through when you're processing or making a decision. Yeah, just letting people know about those things. Yes.

Michelle Hill: Sharing those. And and I do think that relatedness. Right. So getting to know them a little bit on the personal side again it's not about sharing all of your dirty laundry. By no means. But you know, it's it is a little bit of that, you know, what do you enjoy doing outside of work. What do you enjoy? You know, what do you have going on this weekend? It's just a little bit of that small talk where people are like, oh, they can relate. They can connect because not everyone can connect on that professional side. Even though they're your employee, they're still going to be some disconnects, right? But when they can see you as, oh, like they have children, they're struggling with their child or, you know, little things, little things. Again, not big, but right.

Andrea Frederickson: You're just showing the humanity of your person as who you are and not making things quite so transactional. Yes. And I think that that's where, you know, we can go too far. We can be. Here's everything you need to know, everything you don't want to know and then some. Right. That's not where we're talking about. But we're not also saying I'm a robot or I make no mistakes or I've never made a mistake and I've never learned from it. That's that's the other extreme of things. Correct. And so this, this gentleman was really struggling with, he believed that leaders just did the work. They just directed information, directed resources, gave people feedback on what's right, what's wrong, what needs to be changed. And there's a lot of transaction in the relationships. And he was he hired us to to coach him and then we but we still had to recognize okay. Are you willing to do the changing the work to make that happen. Because if you disagree with the feedback that's part of the issue, right? Yeah. So so let's talk a little bit more about vulnerability. Why even go so far as to improve even just a little of your vulnerability. Like what's the benefit to me as a leader if I'm being a little vulnerable with my coworkers and my team?

Michelle Hill: Well, one, going back to the one I've already said becoming more relatable when we're more relatable than another side, you know, a result of that is going to be we can start building some trust. People start feeling a little more comfortable around you, right? Right. I think as a like another ripple effect of of that is the positive impact it can have on building the team and the team cohesively working better together and being able to have, you know, difficult conversations while at the same time being being able to feel safe to speak up. So, you know, just just a couple of those I believe can be that ripple. Effect of of doing that which so that you've got the trust, you know, the team work, the people being more comfortable to speak up. I know I'm missing a handful here.

Andrea Frederickson: Well, you mentioned the psychological safety. Yes. The psychological safety. Be vulnerable because I realize that other person recognizes their humanness. And I can be human, too. Yes. And and so I think that there's there's a lot to be said there. I also think that it is a great way to teach others lessons. So before, you know, we might be having a conversation and you're willing to say, you know, I remember when I first became a leader or I remember going through this same scenario and it's like, oh, shoot, you know, I never thought it's not just me.

Michelle Hill: You know, you do that. That happened to you. No way. Yeah. Because you're so good at this.

Andrea Frederickson: I think that there's along with that, I think there's some really good problem solving that comes from showing that we're going to make the best decision we can with the information we have at that moment. Is there anything else that we need to know, experiences that we need to share? Um, what emotions you might be going through as you proceed through the decision or you're going to be making this decision, and you may not be popular and might not be liked by everybody else or, you know, things like that. So I think that that the vulnerability is, um, is really important. Now there are degrees of vulnerability.

Michelle Hill: Yes, yes yes, yes. Where then it becomes you can almost swing to the other side where it's, it's just too much. It's too much information. It's sharing. Over sharing might be the, you know, the word for that.

Andrea Frederickson: But and I think that's one of the reasons people choose not to be vulnerable. So the fear of over sharing. But are there things that we have seen in those that we coach and those that we work with that are saying, I'm not. I'm choosing not to be vulnerable because I'm afraid of over sharing? Or are there others that you've heard?

Michelle Hill: Well, I'm afraid of being weak or being viewed as weak. I'm afraid that people won't view me as a leader because leaders are that perfectionist, right?

Andrea Frederickson: I'm supposed to know everything?

Michelle Hill: Yes, yes, I have to have all the answers versus the let's see what. Let's flip this back and let's see what the teams answers are, or the people that core people around you. So those I would say are going to be common ones. It's that fear of, well, fear of failure, but fear of looking like a failure. Right?

Andrea Frederickson: Feeling, feeling like I don't know all the answers and I don't look as strong as I want to be viewed as. And so it really does come down to how do you want to be viewed? And if you want to be viewed as a leader who has compassion, yes. And who is willing to help people learn things, and learning is an environment where, you know, people are relating to what you're saying or having a bit of understanding. It's not just here's the recipe of how you do these things. Pick and choose how you go about doing it. But we still need to recognize that there's a human on on the side of the doing and the decision making. Right?

Michelle Hill: Correct?

Andrea Frederickson: Correct. So if you were to give people advice, how for those who don't like being vulnerable or think that vulnerability is a sign of weakness or for whatever reason they've said, give me the highest one, right? I'm just going to keep you that three feet away. And in doing that, what are some things that that you offer those that you lead or coach to help them become vulnerable?

Michelle Hill: Well, one is the question what type of culture do you want? How do you want your people interacting and working together? Okay, because if you want your people collaborating, if you want your people being able to say, I screwed up, if you want your so we can address it sooner than later, right? Right. If you want your people to, um, to be supportive of one another and to have some compassion when and jump in and help when someone does make a mistake, you've got to you've got to step up and demonstrate that you've got to set the example. So my first question is what kind of culture, what environment? How do you want? How do you want your people working together?

Andrea Frederickson: I think that's so important. I love that you bring that up because people say I want something, but behave a different way and don't realize the impact that that has on the people around them and the people that they lead. Um, I also think that if you're going to, as you work toward becoming more vulnerable, kind of have to start small. Yes. And so, you know, what kinds of little things can you share? Is there an experience that you had that's similar to what they're about to go through, or maybe what they've done and where you maybe made a mistake or you wish you would have made a different decision and you can share that information with others. It doesn't have to be huge. It just has to be very small. Correct.

Michelle Hill: I think it's it's the little step of being intentional every day. Who can I connect with? Who can I I mean, just have a small conversation with to get to know them a little bit. Um, and it's not about my story out trumping their story, because we got to be careful with that, too. Right, right. Exactly. Um, but it's it's being very intentional of making those connections. And then when situations arise, when there's an opportunity, it's still being intentional about, you know, I struggled with this 20 years ago and these are this is the couple things helped me. Are you interested. Right. Asking them if they if they're interested in your advice, you know kind of scenario. But it's it's something where every day you have to be thinking about when, when the moment happens. Because that's the thing is, I can't predict. No one can predict that someone someone's going to make a mistake or no one's going to be able to predict that someone comes in really sad or, you know, had something really, um, that was really bothered them outside of work. Right. That it's there. It's, it's in the moment. So, um, it's, it's being intentional of what can I do to connect today. And then at the end of the day, just asking yourself, what did I do to connect? Who did I have a conversation with? And it's about baby steps. It's like I had one conversation a day, one, you know, yesterday. You know, it's just kind of keeping a trend where over time maybe you're connecting with multiple people.

Andrea Frederickson: Well, I've got two that kind of go hand in hand with examples of things that you can do. One is to ask for feedback. So are there people on your team that you would appreciate if they said, hey, you made this mistake, or I don't know if we agree with this or um, that maybe the way you're coming across is there's no story with it, right? That you could you could ask for that feedback. The second part of that is for them to also let you know when you recognize that you've made a mistake. Are you willing to say, I screwed up? I should have said that differently, or that email could have been written differently, or it could have been sent out or shared at a different time, whatever the scenario might be that, you know, you might recognize that, oh, that wasn't as good as it could have been. So but but did nothing with it. Correct? Right. So speaking.

Michelle Hill: Up when you're thinking.

Andrea Frederickson: It. Speaking up when you're thinking it. Yeah. And so, you know, part of this whole vulnerability process is we really do want people to become more vulnerable. But there is a downside to becoming vulnerable. We have to watch out. And I think that people overcompensate for, um, being vulnerable where if they share because they're naturally good sharers, but they've been burnt because they shared their, their, um, decision making process and now it backfires, right? Yeah. Or maybe they are sharing, you know, what's the plan on how I'm going to develop this budget or how I'm going to do that? And people don't want that information. And so maybe you feel as though you're not psychologically safe in that people who you report to, you know, leaders report to other people, right? Whether it's a board or a CEO or someone else. And are you feeling if you don't feel comfortable in sharing, that means that other person is not creating that psychological safety. And so we've the recognition that it's hard sometimes to be vulnerable. Some of us like I'll just tell you and consequences are consequences. But at the same time we're also hyper aware of and what's the fallout of that. Right. And so looking at those kind of scenarios.

Michelle Hill: Well, and the one thing I always I want to say worn on the asking for feedback is if I haven't created an environment where people feel safe around me, they're probably not going to give me very much feedback, right? They're going to probably tell you, oh, you're great, you know, and not necessarily have as many issues. Yeah. And um, so it is putting a little more work in before you start seeking feedback to a little bit of a degree or, okay, try test it out, see what happens if you really don't get much, you know, ask them intentionally, okay, hey, I'm going to give you a month and I'm sure I'm going to make a mistake in the next month, or I'm sure there's going to be something I do that maybe you'd like to see me do differently, right? You know, start just jot some things down. So when we talk, when we revisit again, maybe there's something there that can help because we.

Andrea Frederickson: Don't always know the impact we're having on others. Right. And, you know, as I was preparing or as we were preparing for this conversation, we were talking about, yep. Here's what the definition of vulnerability is. Here's why we do it. Here's why people don't do it right. Here's some techniques. But I think that one of the most interesting part of the conversations was when do people even recognize that they are not being vulnerable? Are they doing it on purpose? Or to one extreme, are they being a narcissist? Now, most narcissists don't know that they're narcissist. Well cracked. Right. And so you know that person who never has the wrong answer, who is. It condescending and. Oh, I was just waiting for you guys to come up with the right answer. And now that I. Now that you do now, I'll move forward. Yeah, right. A year later. Right. And so that is not demonstrating vulnerability because I think that there's some narcissists that they didn't have the answer, and they just were waiting for somebody to come up with an answer. And now they were going to prove how right they were. Yes. And so we have to really be aware that being narcissist, being vulnerable, vulnerable is genuine. It is not. I'm just doing this because a coach told me to. Or the latest Leadership Training Conversation podcast says this is what I need to be. Vulnerability is a genuine process and genuine emotion where I'm letting you in a little bit to see what's behind the curtain. You don't need the whole thing. Yeah, but I just need to let people know that I'm human. You're human, and we give each other a little bit of grace and hopefully we learn from it.

Michelle Hill: Yes, 100%. Yeah.

Andrea Frederickson: Thanks for joining us on this episode of The Leadership Hustle. Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss another episode.